Norman McNickle – City Manager – City of Stillwater, Oklahoma

Video Transcript 

Ryan James:

Hello, and welcome to The 3rd Question, a video interview series with public sector thought leaders from around our country. And today, I'm excited to be joined by Norman McNickle. Norman is the city manager at the City of Stillwater in Oklahoma. So Norman, thanks for joining me today.

Norman McNickle:

Oh, thanks for having me.

Ryan James:

So before we get into our three questions, why don't you give the audience just a little background on who you are, your role there at the city, a little bit about the city itself?

Norman McNickle:

Well, we have a council manager form of government here. I have five city counselors who I report to. We are a full service city in that we have police, fire, a library, all of those things that you would expect. And we also have electric, water wastewater, and waste management, and stormwater management. So we have a general government fund and we have the Stillwater Utilities Authority that operates our utilities.

Norman McNickle:

So the city manager of the general fund and the general manager of the Stillwater Utilities Authority. We're a community of about 50,000. We are proud to be the home of Oklahoma State University. Brings us about 25,000 residents a year and that is the largest industry here. We have other industries that certainly contribute to our economy, but OSU is the largest.

Ryan James:

And you've been there for quite a while, too right?

Norman McNickle:

I have. I started in 1976 probably before you were born.

Ryan James:

Nope. Nope. I'm not that young, but thank you. I appreciate it.

Norman McNickle:

But I started as a patrol officer in the police department, worked my way up through that. Was chief for 23 years, eventually public safety director over police, fire, and the airport in emergency management, and then was asked to be interim city manager when the previous city manager left. I was actually asked to apply for the job. I told them no, but after doing the job for about six months, I had a big enough ego that I thought I could do it. Applied and was fortunate enough to be appointed. So I've been drinking from a fire hose for the last five and a half years.

Ryan James:

All right. Well I'm sure your fire colleagues probably appreciate that as the chief of police, using that analogy. Well, let's get into the three questions we have for you today. So I'm really interested as someone who's had the privilege of serving your city and your community there for over four decades, I'm sure you have seen a lot of changes in how local government has evolved over the years. From maybe some of the services that are needed to the actual skillset of the employees, the city employees, to even the technology that helps your city run more efficiently and effectively.

Ryan James:

My question would be, what would you say are some of the biggest changes you've seen over the years, and then maybe more importantly, especially for our audience, what do you anticipate as some of those changes potentially coming in the future?

Norman McNickle:

Well, I think without a doubt, the technology has been the biggest influence on improving the way city government works. When I started, we had typewriters, and carbon paper, and Dictaphones and all kinds of things that we thought were a teletype machine that we thought were pretty high tech at the time. With the advent of computers, certainly we've been able to not only improve our services, but speed up our services.

Norman McNickle:

One point, going back to the police field, it took about three hours to work or investigate a simple car crash. With the advent of computers and the ability to load intersections into those computers and drop and drag icons into it, it would reduce that to about 45 minutes. So that's one example of the efficiency that you can gain with technology and that has spread itself completely through our 530 person organization. And again, you talked about the change in the employees. Certainly we do hire for a different skillset now. Those that can deal with that technology and are good at working with it and are able to adapt to new ideas pretty quickly.

Ryan James:

I'm going to ask... Before I ask you about what's coming potentially, I'm curious because you have really in your backyard, a great opportunity to get some of that next generation, some of those maybe differently skilled set employees at the university there. Is that something the city has been able to tap into?

Norman McNickle:

No.

Ryan James:

Okay. Love it.

Norman McNickle:

We have occasionally, but far less frequently than we would want to have happen. People come here for four years. We're kind of out in the middle of the prairie. We're 60 miles from Oklahoma City. We're 60 miles from Tulsa. We have seen an out migration of those students that go to metropolitan areas to live. We have recently started addressing quality of life issues to be able to provide services in the private sector that those people would enjoy in an effort to be able to hold on to more of those folks. Right now we're having a heck of a time hiring engineers and we have one of the best engineering schools right in our backyard. But again, because of the amenities in other locations, they move on.

Ryan James:

Got it. Well, I only ask that because I've actually heard that same challenge. Doesn't matter if you're in the middle of, like you said, the prairie, or I've heard it at some big Metro cities too, where they still have universities right there and they're in the heart of a eight ninth, large are city in the country and they still have a hard time getting some of those students come do public service. Work for the public, in the public sector. So, it seems like it's a common challenge. I'm always curious though, when talking to groups like yours, just if there's been an ability to tap into some of that talent. So I'm sure it's in the works.

Norman McNickle:

Well, it is and what we do instead is count on our employees that go to other locations for training or for any type of gathering to, frankly, steal other cities' good employees. That is our MO right now. Hopefully over time and we have some projects in the works right now that we think will greatly increase quality of life here in Stillwater and hopefully that will change.

Ryan James:

Got it. So I cut you off before you gave kind of what you thought maybe some of those changes in the future might be. Have you thought about that at all?

Norman McNickle:

I have and I think that there will be a continued impetus to work smarter, not harder, and to employ technology even to a greater degree, to be able to provide services more efficiently to our citizens. Certainly I think they demand that their tax dollars be spent wisely and I think transparency in city government and what we do and how we do it is absolutely key to keeping them satisfied. And again, we've always done it that way does not work anymore.

Ryan James:

Yep. That is very true. Well, you kind of set me up for my second question because it does talk about the tax dollars, your constituent's tax dollars. So one of the things I get to do in my role is very often I read cities' budgets and strategic plans, and I had a chance to look through yours, Stillwater's And what the next five years, you've kind of put together as an organization. And I saw that there were six broad community priorities through that strategic plan.

Ryan James:

So I'd love to know this. With or without a pandemic, city and local government, even state government, public sector budgets are always tough. They're tight. Where are we putting our dollars? And decisions have to be made on how those dollars are going to be spent. So as you, as a city manager, oversee city departments and sound like some of the utilities piece as well, you're also working with your city council and their elected goals. What factors do you kind of put into place to prioritize, I guess, how to evaluate, how to allocate those dollars as an organization?

Norman McNickle:

Our budget every year is zero based. We require our department managers to present a budget, not based on last year's, but based on their work plan for the coming year. They use that strategic plan and in fact, every report that goes to the city council has a little paragraph at the end on how that report speaks to the strategic plan. We have been fortunate in the last, it seems like 16 years, but the last 18 months during COVID to have had either flat or frankly, even slightly each increased.

Norman McNickle:

We had two months where we had the best sales tax ever, which is kind of interesting based on COVID because we started making a lot of cuts when this thing hit and delaying projects and stepping back. But in about October of last year, we turned our department managers loose with their budget back to those that had been prepared prior to the time that COVID hit. That does not mean we're flush with revenue. It just means that we were able to go ahead and accomplish the plans that we had in place.

Ryan James:

So you got this-

Norman McNickle:

My answer to your third question is probably going to be that. It's connected to the budget and revenue and the problems that we have here.

Ryan James:

Well, one of the things that I'm always curious is, and you said it, we can't always do things the way we always did them because it just doesn't work that way. So as priorities are made, as budget dollars are allocated, how often are those decisions, those initial decisions, reassessed or audited to determine their success? As opposed to, if you're going to make a mistake, make it quickly kind of idea. How often do you guys, as a city, kind of look at those things?

Norman McNickle:

Monthly.

Ryan James:

Okay.

Norman McNickle:

We require reports from our directors monthly on their budget, and how they're doing, and where they are, and their goals. So it's not a strategic plan that we put a lot of flowery words into and put up on the shelf and look at it next budget here. It's something that we constantly review and ask them again to report on that on a monthly basis. So it is truly a living document here.

Ryan James:

Got it, got it. Well, you started to beat me to my third question, but you obviously know what season two, what we've been asking and you might have seen this on prior videos, but I've written a blank check, an infinity check to the City of Stillwater, which of course, it's only as good as whatever it's written on and it's signed by me. So it's not going to go very far, but hypothetically, if you were able to take a blank check for your city and use it to help your organization, how would you spend it and why?

Norman McNickle:

Streets. Our streets are in abysmal condition. Make that admission to you. One of the problems with the state of Oklahoma, we are the only state in the United States that municipalities are not allowed access to ad valorem, or property tax, for operations. So we live and die by sales tax and by the profits that our electric utility makes. They make a transfer once a year into general government. We generally have about a 16 or 17 million dollar shortfall in sales tax just to be able to do the basic things that you expect the city to do.

Norman McNickle:

The largest shortfall is in transportation projects. We have a list of about 68 million worth of projects that we could start implementing tomorrow if we had the funding. So as a result of that, both the city council and city staff are in the process of holding public meetings with the public to see what their appetite is to an increase in sales tax or a general bond issue, what here is known as a general obligation bond, that would increase ad valorem tax on their property. We think that the appetite's probably going to be more for a slight increase in sales tax to be able to accomplish getting our streets back into sufficient.... Just in a good standard.

Ryan James:

Yeah. Well, you know what? Every time I ask that question, I get a different answer. And so I always appreciate the... I mean, whether it's infrastructure or employee training. I mean, hypothetically, it's an infinity check and it can go a lot of ways, but it sounds like you guys are on a path with what you know you're looking to do for your community there too.

Norman McNickle:

Right, we hope so.

Ryan James:

Yeah. Well it sounds like it. Well, Norman, I really appreciate you joining me for a few minutes and answering the three questions. For any of our viewers if they want to see other interviews with public sector thought leaders, they can go to the thirdquestion.com and subscribe there, but I appreciate your time. It was great meeting you and I hope you have a great week.