Dustin Haisler, CIO, eRepublic
On this episode of The 3rd Question we talk with Dustin Haisler, CIO, eRepublic, as he discusses the mindset shift of the public sector with technology and how that is providing advancements and opportunities for growth in government and education.
Video Transcript
Ryan James:
Hello, and welcome to The 3rd Question, a video interview series with public sector thought leaders from around the country. Today is a little bit different. Today, I'm joined by Dustin Haisler. He's the CIO at eRepublic.
Ryan James:
Dustin, thank you so much for joining me today.
Dustin Haisler:
Yeah, thanks so much for the invite.
Ryan James:
I say you're a little bit unique because to date, with our regular viewers, I've been having a lot of people on who are in the public sector. I'd love if you could do just a quick introduction of who you are, and maybe a little bit about eRepublic and what you guys do as an organization.
Dustin Haisler:
Yeah, definitely. My background is in public sector. And, it was banking before that. I stumbled into public sector as an accidental public servant. I was a CFO of a town outside of Austin, Texas and left as their CIO and assistant city manager. Then, did startups, and have now been at eRepublic for six years.
Dustin Haisler:
eRepublic is the largest media and research company exclusively focused on state and local government here in the US. When I was a CIO, I used to attend all their events and read all their content. Now, I'm on the other side of the fence, getting to help create and shape that direction, as their chief innovation officer.
Ryan James:
Awesome. Well, I'm really excited to get you to answer three questions for me today. With that, I'm going to start with the first question.
Ryan James:
Obviously, you have been involved with public sector technology on both sides of the fence for over a decade. As you've seen transition and innovation and things change, I guess I'd ask you what do you think are two or three of the largest changes you've seen in the public sector vertical, when it comes to technology advances specifically? And, maybe where public sector organizations are prioritizing?
Dustin Haisler:
Yeah, absolutely. I think the first thing is the democratization of tech. Back when I was in government, smaller cities couldn't actually buy the latest and greatest tech. They often had to work with counties or larger government agencies, or you had to go into debt in order to finance it, it was a really complex thing. There was an industrial complex of technology, you had to have on-premise infrastructure. It was very costly to operate and maintain. The vast majority of government in the US, in fact 95% of cities, are smaller municipalities across the country, so that was often out of reach for them. They really struggled with that.
Dustin Haisler:
I think one of the biggest changes is that now, any city can have access to the latest and greatest technology, a best-of-breed solution, the most modern technology platforms that are out there. It doesn't matter their size or their financial means of access anymore, all of that is more accessible than ever now. That's really starting to change the game because now you're seeing smaller cities, and even mid-size cities, that are coming up with really interesting use cases, and applications, and innovations on world class infrastructure that they don't have to worry about maintaining themselves, and securing, and all of that other stuff. That's changed the dynamic, there.
Dustin Haisler:
I think the second thing is government, as an industry, is often ... When I was in the startup world, I was told to avoid government and education. Those are the two verticals that you're told never to do anything with because you have all these myths associated with going to market. Longer sales cycles, complex procurement rules, it's a relationship business, all of those things. But, what's really changed is gov-tech has become an industry of industries, and it's something that now entrepreneurs and investors are really having a lot of great success with. I mean, you see the big companies in the market that are doing well, and have very established state and local government practices, and Federal government practices. But now, you also see startups. It was unheard of to have a smaller company actually be able to break into a state government agency, or a large city. The procurement rules, insurance requirements, and others things alone would disqualify them.
Dustin Haisler:
But now, you're seeing technology that's designed to help these cities pilot startups and doing things, and you're seeing competitions, and all kinds of really interesting dynamics there. I think government technology as an industry is really on fire right now. In light of everything that's happened this year, it's become more critical than ever, I think, for these agencies to use technology in new ways. And, for new people to come into the mix and invest in it, and create new types of capabilities for these agencies to use.
Ryan James:
Do you think that the government agencies themselves have changed? This is a part B of that question. I don't want to say loosened their procurement rules, but changed the way they've adopted technology on the public sector side, as opposed to just the innovative startups trying to get in there.
Dustin Haisler:
Yeah, it's a little bit of both. I think we've definitely seen a mindset shift in government. You always had people that got it, understood the role that these companies played in the process, but there were legal requirements and restrictions that prevented them from doing that. So, we are seeing some changes there. I would argue it's not fast enough, when it comes to the friction that's put in place. Going through RFP process or RFI process, if you're a startup you can't bet on the potential of getting one of those awarded to you, you really need a certain level of assurance.
Dustin Haisler:
I think some of the models have changed. SaaS has introduced a new delivery model for government agencies, where they can buy something, they're not committing to a binding agreement over the course of a year, but they can pay for it, cancel anytime, it gives them more flexibility and it's often under the discretionary spend cap these agencies have. I think there's more flexibility getting in there. And, we've seen some changes even from a procurement standpoint. Cloud and as-a-service procurements were largely illegal, if you look back 10 years ago. You had to be on-premise. You've got CGIS compliance and a variety of other things over there, and those have all changed as well. Now, agencies can use a new technology.
Dustin Haisler:
I think there's still a lot of opportunity there to improve that, but definitely something that has shifted. And the mindset inside of government has shifted as well, when it comes to the role that technology could play. They don't necessarily need to do everything themselves, but they can rely on and work with partners to help accelerate their ability to innovate on top of it.
Ryan James:
Well, it's a good segue into my second question, because typically what I've seen is that the public sector has been a laggard to the private sector when it comes to technology, innovation, etc. Even getting access to some of the data, because they've got a lot of manual processes, disparate systems, etc.
Ryan James:
But, as I talk to thought leaders across the country, I've seen a couple different pieces. One is that COVID has forced the hand of innovation needs in the last six to seven months. Policies have been changed, they don't have the same pushback from, whether it's unions or whatever it might be. So, they've sped up that adoption rate because they've been forced to. But, I've also seen, and I think you're an example, of private sector thought leaders who have moved into the public sector space. That has been happening more frequently, so you start seeing that same speed up of change as well.
Ryan James:
I guess my question though, with some of that context, is what could you share with our viewers around some of the innovation that have been happening over the last years? What are some of the shifts you're seeing happening right now in the public sector space?
Dustin Haisler:
Yeah, it's a great question. I think, one, COVID has definitely accelerated a lot of it, but I think it's really brought and put a spotlight on what government is capable of and for some, what government has done before but maybe just never had a platform or spotlight for it. There's so many innovators that are in the space that are doing incredible work, and actually have been doing incredible work throughout their entire careers. They just never really had the platform or the spotlight, and the recognition for it.
Dustin Haisler:
I think in terms of stuff that I've worked on that I think has really evolved and become more mainstream in government, crowdsourcing is one. Back when I was in government, we looked at crowdsourcing ideas, we partnered with the White House, we found ways to actually tap into what we call the collective intelligence of our population to find better ways of doing things. That evolved over the course of the last decade into crowdsourcing pothole identifications, and 311 requests, and those types of things. Now, that's gone even another step forward where you're crowdsourcing earthquake detection through passive accelerometer sensors on your smartphones through companies like Google. It's really interesting to see how the technology has morphed from I'm actively participating in a system, to now I can actually share layers of my information in order to crowdsource earthquake detection. That's been an interesting dynamic.
Dustin Haisler:
I think the second thing is the government experience. When you think about the government experience, it's often like Yahoo's homepage. That's what comes to mind, from the '90s. You can go to a website and you have every possible thing that you could ever want to do online, you just have to find it. I think a lot of agencies, unfortunately, were in that struggle. But, over the last five years, 10 years, we've started to see this huge shift into how do we build services around people. When I was in government, this was an important thing to start to look at the citizen not as just the person that you have a financial obligation to serve, but as your customer that you want to build services around because when you build them around their needs, it actually has an inherent business value for us as well because you can better serve them, they're more seamless in the way that they interact with you, and there's a variety of other benefits that come out of that.
Dustin Haisler:
I think government experience has really evolved, and become more of a mission critical focus for agencies where they're not looking at, "How do I actually go beyond my website? How do I use new technologies? How do I build emerging interfaces that allow people to engage with me, whether they like it or not?" There's so many private sector examples of that. There's a company in California called YoGov that you can pay to wait in line for you at the DMV and you trade places with them when it's your time. We see those things sometimes, in the public sector, as threats to our model, to our process, to what we've created. But, I think, now, agencies are starting to see those as actually things that they can leverage and they can pull into the way that they do things.
Dustin Haisler:
Maybe government should look at tapping into more of these third party experiences, because we can't build all our own front doors. We have to go to people where they're at now because we no longer have the website as the sole place that people come to access us, just like City Hall's no longer the sole place that people come.
Ryan James:
Right. Man, I love that. It is interesting, to think about it in that way. Obviously as a citizen, there's certain things you look for. But for what I work with, and most of my interactions, it's on the employer side. How are they also empowering their employees through technology as well? It's a two-sided coin. They're looking at technology for the constituents but then, on some of these ... It doesn't matter the size, you said it. Really now with SaaS being what it is, and the ability to get technology at a cheaper cost, no matter the size of the organization, they can also look at their employees as well. And say, "How can we better the lives of our employees, as public sector organizations?"
Dustin Haisler:
Yeah. The best ideas come from the edge of your organization. They don't start at the top, they come from your employees, they come from your citizens, they come from your stakeholders that you support. I think the challenges for agencies is really tapping into what their needs are, and actually building services not that they think that they need, but actually that will solve their problems. It brings in human centered design and design thinking, and there's a lot of industry phrases that have been applied to try to fit that. But, it's really just one, understanding who your customer is and then building services that solve their unique problems.
Dustin Haisler:
And then, I think the other thing that shifted is the way that we traditionally deploy technology in government. It was a one-time event, you pop a bottle of champagne, you're done. Big ERP implementations, big projects, you're done. But now, things have changed because it's such a constantly evolving and moving landscape. When you're done with one project, it's time to start again. Not just technology is moving so quick, but the behavior changes around it are also exponentially increasing. Agencies have to stay innovative, and they have to continuously improve, and continuously adapt.
Dustin Haisler:
I think that's why it's so fun to be around this industry because government is an industry of industries, every possible thing that you could ever want to do exists inside a government agency somewhere. Whether it's public safety, whether it's social services, whether it's utilities, engineering, whatever it might be. It's an industry of industries that you can go in and have the greatest potential to impact people, and have a direct impact on them that you can actually see. That's one of the things I really fell in love with, working in city government, is I could see the changes on the people that we served. But, I think there's so much opportunity to step it up and find ways to be even more front-and-center, and to engage them in the process because we also know government doesn't have unlimited money. Contrary to popular belief, cities aren't funded by the Federal government. There's a finite amount of resources that you have so you have to get really creative with how you solve these problems.
Ryan James:
Yeah, yeah. Well listen, we're already at the third question. For you today, I have picked a time machine. Regular viewers know what this question is. But, as someone who's worked both public and private, really around the different parts of the country, I'm going to give you the TARDIS from Dr. Who, if you're familiar or are a fan. And you took this and you could go to any point in your career and change something, or tell yourself, give yourself advice. What would that be, and why?
Dustin Haisler:
Yeah, that's a great question. I think I'd probably go back to my time in government and find more ways to codify the innovations that I did at that time, and even in my work in the private sector. I think those that are in government that have found ways to push the envelope and innovate, they get on a stride and they do a lot of really powerful things. I think the biggest challenge is sustaining the momentum to live beyond you.
Dustin Haisler:
So, when you think about innovative work, unfortunately when election cycles happen especially at the local levels of government, often those are the things that get ripped out. Because the next administration comes in, they want to have their own approach, their own fingerprints on things. Unfortunately, some of the innovative work, and some groundbreaking innovative work in the public sector, has been ripped out because of politics, and because of a variety of other things. It's not just we can't blame it on the elected or those types of officials, I think that comes down to just finding ways to actually make it harder to do. You can't rip out garbage service from a city, or go into a state agency and rip out a level of their oversight, so they've codified those elements to make it really difficult to make fundamental changes to it.
Dustin Haisler:
I think when it comes to public sector innovation, that's probably what I'd go back to do. I'd look at building more of those foundational layers to make it harder to take out and to go backwards in time. I mean, unfortunately some of the same conversations that we had when I was in government are happening today, around open data and innovation, and other things. I think it just shows there's such a market need for really baking some of the stuff in, learning from other examples across the country, and building a structure that makes it very difficult to go backwards but only to really press ahead.
Ryan James:
Got it. Well Dustin, thank you so much for joining me today, answering these three questions. This is a great insight from a different perspective that our viewers don't regularly have. If any of you want to see other interviews, you can go to the3rdquestion.com and catch those there. You can subscribe and got notified when we release more interviews.
Ryan James:
But Dustin, thank you so much. I hope you have a great week. I look forward to staying in touch, and seeing some of the new things that eRepublic continue to put out over the coming weeks and months.
Dustin Haisler:
Yeah. Thanks for the invite, it was fun.
